Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

Nothing was too stale for someone away at school...

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Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

When I was away in school, my dad would send me stuff packed in popcorn.  Real popcorn.  I ate it if it wasn't too stale. 

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Re: [electronics101] Test Connections for Thru Hole PCBs

Thanks Roy. That's exactly what I was looking for. Got some on order.

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Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

        They had those peanuts that ya could just pour water over & they dissolved . Wonder what happened to them , I haven't seen any in several years ?

        animal

On 8/13/23 4:42 AM, mondosmetals wrote:

"Note: Enclose a $50 surcharge for using packing peanuts/popcorn!"

ROFL! You really do hate those foam nuggets!

I have an old Craftsman motor that runs but has a short 110V to the housing when running. Don't troubleshoot here in this forum, I will contact you through your ad on Hemming's when I am ready to deal with it.

Raymond

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Re: [electronics101] Test Connections for Thru Hole PCBs

On Saturday 12 August 2023 02:56:44 pm James AG5VE via groups.io wrote:
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a device to "plug" into a thru hole location to attach a test probe, meter, oscilloscope lead, etc?
> I need a way to temporarily connect off board pots for testing.  The pots don't actually get soldered in place until the whole assembly is placed in the enclosure.
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> James

Perhaps something like this?

https://www.adafruit.com/product/3825

In scrapping stuff, I have encountered two kinds, one of which has square corners and is often used for wire wrap. The other is round with a larger section on the top that prevents a hook-type clip from slipping off. I label them "stakes" in my pile of stuff, but didn't encounter them in a quick search of "test points".

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin


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Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

"Note: Enclose a $50 surcharge for using packing peanuts/popcorn!"

ROFL! You really do hate those foam nuggets!

I have an old Craftsman motor that runs but has a short 110V to the housing when running. Don't troubleshoot here in this forum, I will contact you through your ad on Hemming's when I am ready to deal with it.

Raymond

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[electronics101] Test Connections for Thru Hole PCBs

Does anyone have a recommendation for a device to "plug" into a thru hole location to attach a test probe, meter, oscilloscope lead, etc?
I need a way to temporarily connect off board pots for testing.  The pots don't actually get soldered in place until the whole assembly is placed in the enclosure. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

James

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Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

wannabe

GP

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 01:30:12 PM EDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Not where I grew up. We had another phrase for that, and I'm too inhibited to use it anymore. I guess we could call it red-neck engineering. Sort of thing farmers do to get critical equipment to operate when they need it and the only folks that can be hired to fix things have a long wait time and harvest is due RFN. 

Not really a redneck, just a wannabe. Though my other grandma was from Beckley, WV. So I have some redneck ancestry! ;)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 09:53:35 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

        no " micky mousing " is when you do something halfassed that  you know in the back of your mind can possibly injure someone .

        animal

On 8/11/23 5:31 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

Yep. That's what we call "micky-mousing" something. I grew up not too far from Disneyland! Dad and Grandpa were great at it!

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 06:49:02 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

        push comes to shove , ya can gut the motor take the armature off the shaft & put the shaft back in & power the shaft from another motor .

    You'd be surprised at some of the things we've done to keep things workin . Years ago my bud scores a 4 cylinder compressor from his wife's boss , he was a dentist . The motor had burnt up in this compressor so they bought a new one & passed the burnt on over to my bud . Did the same thing here ,  tore the motor apart emptied the armature shaft & then installed a pulley in the shaft & cut a notch in the motor housing .

Then I found a nice piece of scrap plate in my someday pile & mounted a motor on it & bolted the plate under the old motor , ran a belt from new motor to new pulley on the shaft from the old motor & the rest is history .

        Yer half way there already with the bad motor .

    anmal

On 8/11/23 3:55 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

Unless I want to completely redesign it, I need the right-angle gear box. I'm not qualified for that! I could probably put a different gear box on it, but none of the ones I've found are near the right size. Too big, or too small, nothing in the Goldilocks zone. I do have a Leeson DC motor and probably some spare brushes for larger motors from my former work, that they trashed. All I have to do is find them. IF I can find something, I can probably cut it down if it's not the right size already. I am good at micky-mousing something... 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 01:39:17 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

        Just tossin this out there , with no load on the motor you will not get the actual amp reading . Also unless  you have a good DC clamp meter most DVM that do amps top out at 10 amps .

       I thought there was a guy in this group that had a motor shop ?  Does the motor absolutely have to have the right angle gear box or can it be a straight gear reduction motor ?

        animal

On 8/11/23 9:02 AM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

SWMBO' s power wheelchair lift crapped out the other day. New motor is no longer available since the lift is ancient. Manufacturer of the lift removed any OEM markings. It's a right- angle gear motor, which I'll eventually have some photos and dimensions for. This is the in-and-out motor for a Harmar AL-600 lift that fits in the back of a van. Near as I can remember it was made about 2007 or so. 

There is no continuity in the motor, but  othinf seems burned. I pulled it apart and fiddled with it, and got continuity back. Hooked it back up to power trying to get a current draw reading and it spun up and  rapped out again. No continuity again. Brushes look good. 

I have a megger for testing  insulation, and an assortment of DVMs and at least one analog voltmeter. Somewhere in the library are a couple of older books on motor testing and repair, but haven't found them yet. Any suggestions for resources? I looked at Grainger & McMaster-Carr, also Amazon & Surplus Center. They have similar gear motors but nothing that looks exactly  right. Most are either way too light or way too heavy. This is a 12vdc motor, could draw as much as 20amps, but probably closer to 10, and could less. There is another motor on it with a different gearbox. Looks to be about the same motor. May fiddle with that, and get a current draw.

Found one of these motors for sale on the knoppix site for $600, was $400 from Harmar at one time. Seems a bit fishy to me, and can't afford it anyway. 

Gotta get ready to take SWMBO to get fitted for a new CPAP mask, and for both of us to get new CPAP machines. Hope someone can point me in a useful direction. Used to be a bunch of folks whe rebuilt motors & alternators/generators around here. Called one and they don't do DC motors at all, and don't think there's anyone left who does.,

Any help will be appreciated!


Bill in OKC 

Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

I think I've got it mostly sorted, at the moment, but I've bookmarked your site just in case! Though I admit to being a cheap bastrich, and wanting to save the money by doing it myself. ;) If it turns out that I'm wrong, I'll give you a call!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 09:01:30 AM CDT, rockindubya via groups.io <jeffwoods95=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Late to the thread.DC motor guy here - 50 years. I can repair and or rewind.

Still quite involved in my "golden years"

Please post 2 pics of the armature, one each side. Odds are I can evaluate by viewing. Be happy to assist you.

Here's my Hemmings ad.

Services for Electric Motor Repair #2000530

Services for Electric Motor Repair #2000530 AUTOMOTIVE ELECTRIC MOTORS Repair, rewind, and/or restoration provided on all brands and types, classic, antique...

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Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

Not where I grew up. We had another phrase for that, and I'm too inhibited to use it anymore. I guess we could call it red-neck engineering. Sort of thing farmers do to get critical equipment to operate when they need it and the only folks that can be hired to fix things have a long wait time and harvest is due RFN. 

Not really a redneck, just a wannabe. Though my other grandma was from Beckley, WV. So I have some redneck ancestry! ;)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 09:53:35 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

        no " micky mousing " is when you do something halfassed that  you know in the back of your mind can possibly injure someone .

        animal

On 8/11/23 5:31 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

Yep. That's what we call "micky-mousing" something. I grew up not too far from Disneyland! Dad and Grandpa were great at it!

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 06:49:02 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

        push comes to shove , ya can gut the motor take the armature off the shaft & put the shaft back in & power the shaft from another motor .

    You'd be surprised at some of the things we've done to keep things workin . Years ago my bud scores a 4 cylinder compressor from his wife's boss , he was a dentist . The motor had burnt up in this compressor so they bought a new one & passed the burnt on over to my bud . Did the same thing here ,  tore the motor apart emptied the armature shaft & then installed a pulley in the shaft & cut a notch in the motor housing .

Then I found a nice piece of scrap plate in my someday pile & mounted a motor on it & bolted the plate under the old motor , ran a belt from new motor to new pulley on the shaft from the old motor & the rest is history .

        Yer half way there already with the bad motor .

    anmal

On 8/11/23 3:55 PM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

Unless I want to completely redesign it, I need the right-angle gear box. I'm not qualified for that! I could probably put a different gear box on it, but none of the ones I've found are near the right size. Too big, or too small, nothing in the Goldilocks zone. I do have a Leeson DC motor and probably some spare brushes for larger motors from my former work, that they trashed. All I have to do is find them. IF I can find something, I can probably cut it down if it's not the right size already. I am good at micky-mousing something... 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 01:39:17 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

        Just tossin this out there , with no load on the motor you will not get the actual amp reading . Also unless  you have a good DC clamp meter most DVM that do amps top out at 10 amps .

       I thought there was a guy in this group that had a motor shop ?  Does the motor absolutely have to have the right angle gear box or can it be a straight gear reduction motor ?

        animal

On 8/11/23 9:02 AM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

SWMBO' s power wheelchair lift crapped out the other day. New motor is no longer available since the lift is ancient. Manufacturer of the lift removed any OEM markings. It's a right- angle gear motor, which I'll eventually have some photos and dimensions for. This is the in-and-out motor for a Harmar AL-600 lift that fits in the back of a van. Near as I can remember it was made about 2007 or so. 

There is no continuity in the motor, but  othinf seems burned. I pulled it apart and fiddled with it, and got continuity back. Hooked it back up to power trying to get a current draw reading and it spun up and  rapped out again. No continuity again. Brushes look good. 

I have a megger for testing  insulation, and an assortment of DVMs and at least one analog voltmeter. Somewhere in the library are a couple of older books on motor testing and repair, but haven't found them yet. Any suggestions for resources? I looked at Grainger & McMaster-Carr, also Amazon & Surplus Center. They have similar gear motors but nothing that looks exactly  right. Most are either way too light or way too heavy. This is a 12vdc motor, could draw as much as 20amps, but probably closer to 10, and could less. There is another motor on it with a different gearbox. Looks to be about the same motor. May fiddle with that, and get a current draw.

Found one of these motors for sale on the knoppix site for $600, was $400 from Harmar at one time. Seems a bit fishy to me, and can't afford it anyway. 

Gotta get ready to take SWMBO to get fitted for a new CPAP mask, and for both of us to get new CPAP machines. Hope someone can point me in a useful direction. Used to be a bunch of folks whe rebuilt motors & alternators/generators around here. Called one and they don't do DC motors at all, and don't think there's anyone left who does.,

Any help will be appreciated!


Bill in OKC 

Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

Yep. PM brushed motor. Ohm meter is still useful for continuity checks through the brushes, brush holders, wire from them to the connectors, etc. Dad taught me how to use an ohm meter back when most of them were vacuum tube operated and all analog displays. Pretty sure I still have a VTVM here someplace... Been a while since I've seen it, though. ;) Been a hobby electronics type most of my life, and 12 years as a Satellite Communications tech for the USAF. Had some spiffy test equipment there, and that was long enough ago that most of it is probably available on the surplus market for prices I could almost afford now. But I already have too many expensive hobbies. ;)

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 09:43:01 PM CDT, Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> wrote:

On 8/11/23 20:33, Steven Nederhiser wrote:

Hello Bill;
Mr. Ohmmeter would be my friend in this application. Check
the field windings to see if they are good, not shorted.

I'm pretty sure that is a permanent magnet motor, so no
field winding.

Jon

Re: [atlas-craftsman IO] OT-how to test and repair DC brushed motors.

If I talk to anyone in or from Santa Fe Springs I might get homesick! ;) Grew up mostly there, Norwalk, La Mirada, and Whittier. I have been using heck out of my newest DVM from Harbor Freight. Got a nice continuity check function, and if you select any of the Ohms settings except that or diode check, it will auto-range. Getting 20.3ohms even without one of the brush caps in place. Hit the interiors of the brush holders with CRC QD Electronic Cleaner and a Q-tip, just in case it had surface corrosion. Have to properly caffeinate this old body, and then clean and search the floor for the one missing nut and brush cap. Had a catastrophic spill of gatorade last night. Threw towels on everything, and went to bed. This morning I've been picking up what I can, and getting it ready to wash. Sticky from the sugar in the gatorade. Found one nut, and hadn't lost the other brush cap. 

I can steal one from the other motor, and ops check, if needed, but I'd rather find the missing bits. I need to clean up this dump anyway. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 08:34:09 PM CDT, Steven Nederhiser <7101sned@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Bill;

Mr. Ohmmeter would be my friend in this application. Check the field windings to see if they are good, not shorted. Check the armature for shorts and continuity. I am sure that there is a tutorial on the internet covering this. 95% of the time the armature goes bad. Try eurton electric out in Santa Fe Springs in California. I have sent many items out to them over the years. They also carry brushes, switches, ect. Check the power, fuses, and switch.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 4:55 PM Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Unless I want to completely redesign it, I need the right-angle gear box. I'm not qualified for that! I could probably put a different gear box on it, but none of the ones I've found are near the right size. Too big, or too small, nothing in the Goldilocks zone. I do have a Leeson DC motor and probably some spare brushes for larger motors from my former work, that they trashed. All I have to do is find them. IF I can find something, I can probably cut it down if it's not the right size already. I am good at micky-mousing something... 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Aphorisms to live by:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. 

SEMPER GUMBY!

Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better.

Expect in one hand, expectorate in the other. See which one gets full first.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 01:39:17 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

        Just tossin this out there , with no load on the motor you will not get the actual amp reading . Also unless  you have a good DC clamp meter most DVM that do amps top out at 10 amps .

       I thought there was a guy in this group that had a motor shop ?  Does the motor absolutely have to have the right angle gear box or can it be a straight gear reduction motor ?

        animal

On 8/11/23 9:02 AM, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:

SWMBO' s power wheelchair lift crapped out the other day. New motor is no longer available since the lift is ancient. Manufacturer of the lift removed any OEM markings. It's a right- angle gear motor, which I'll eventually have some photos and dimensions for. This is the in-and-out motor for a Harmar AL-600 lift that fits in the back of a van. Near as I can remember it was made about 2007 or so. 

There is no continuity in the motor, but  othinf seems burned. I pulled it apart and fiddled with it, and got continuity back. Hooked it back up to power trying to get a current draw reading and it spun up and  rapped out again. No continuity again. Brushes look good. 

I have a megger for testing  insulation, and an assortment of DVMs and at least one analog voltmeter. Somewhere in the library are a couple of older books on motor testing and repair, but haven't found them yet. Any suggestions for resources? I looked at Grainger & McMaster-Carr, also Amazon & Surplus Center. They have similar gear motors but nothing that looks exactly  right. Most are either way too light or way too heavy. This is a 12vdc motor, could draw as much as 20amps, but probably closer to 10, and could less. There is another motor on it with a different gearbox. Looks to be about the same motor. May fiddle with that, and get a current draw.

Found one of these motors for sale on the knoppix site for $600, was $400 from Harmar at one time. Seems a bit fishy to me, and can't afford it anyway. 

Gotta get ready to take SWMBO to get fitted for a new CPAP mask, and for both of us to get new CPAP machines. Hope someone can point me in a useful direction. Used to be a bunch of folks whe rebuilt motors & alternators/generators around here. Called one and they don't do DC motors at all, and don't think there's anyone left who does.,

Any help will be appreciated!


Bill in OKC