Metalwork - Lathe and Mill topics: October 2023

Monday, 23 October 2023

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

Lots of good feedback and ideas here when it comes to test bench setup. Certain test gear is pretty much a given but there are three key elements of my test bench that have made more of a difference than anything else:

Lighting & magnification. I have a swing-arm lamp with a magnifying lens in the middle of it, and it's an absolute essential for close-up work.
Desoldering gun. I use a Hakko desoldering gun and it's one of the most potent weapons on the bench I do mostly restoration work, so it's essential.
Downsized test gear. Let's face it – most of us don't have the room for full-size scopes and signal generators. The TinySA is extremely powerful, and has fabulous signal generator capabilities, and it's no bigger than my cell phone. It's not the be-all, end-all piece of test gear, but just fine for working with boat anchors, especially as a signal generator for IF and RF alignments or running a quick analysis of oscillator operations. Other gear I've downsized is the scope (to a Siglent digital), and a more robust signal generator (also Siglent).

YMMV!

73 – Steve, KW4H

Tucson, AZ

From: Amateur-repairs@groups.io <Amateur-repairs@groups.io> on behalf of J.D. Barron KE4MD <jeter.d.barron@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, October 23, 2023 at 8:49 AM
To: Amateur-repairs@groups.io <Amateur-repairs@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

To add to the earlier comment about soldering irons and mass - You need a nice hefty iron or a big gun to desolder or solder to something that is a pretty good heat sink; like perhaps a nice ft ground plane on a board.
Thinking that a smell iron is somehow better or safer is incorrect as the quicker you get up to temp and finish the job the less damage you are likely to do.
A good assortment of irons for the tasks is a good idea.
I have 10 watt and 150 watt irons (and guns) along with a small butane powered portable iron of unknown wattage.
Often the hot air station is used to do the work or to just preheat so that the irons have less work to do and to reduce thermal stress.
Thanks.
JD
KE4MD

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

_._,_._,_

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

I add in an adalm pluto with soft satsagen... As spectrum analyzer and test transmitter for vhf uhf shf.. And maybe another sdr covering shortwave..

Some attenuators... A nanovna v2

A tinysaultra...

And so on

Or in other words it's never complete

Dg9bfc sigi

Am 23.10.2023 07:43 schrieb Richard Knoppow <1oldlens1@ix.netcom.com>:

All suggestions good. I would suggest also an old fashioned large
soldering iron. I had three, all stolen by exterminators. The idea is
that for large items, like can capacitors, you need a soldering iron
with mass. Mass is more important than temperature. A small iron will
not heat large items no matter how hot it gets but it may burn things. A
large iron is more controllable than a heat gun. Heat gun is necessary
for other things.

On 10/22/2023 9:14 PM, David VK2CZ wrote:
> My general purpose bench uses:
>
> Best solder station / vacuum desolder tool you can afford (eg Metcal and
> others). Normal 60/40 solder ( the eco friendly stuff will cause your
> hair to go grey), SMD flux stick, Fibreglass brush to remove solder
> resist, and if your into serious work, conformal coatings, isopropyl
> alcohol and toothbrush / cotton balls.
> Hot air gun to pre-heat connections on large components.
> 30 Gauge insulated wire (to remake broken tracks or wire in mods)
>
> DMM, with continuity beep, multiple test leads with sharp pin ends,
> alligator spring clip ends and SMD tweezer.
> CRO over 100Mhz with 2 or more channels, and ideally with I2C, RS232,
> CAN protocol analysis / trigger abilities..
> PSU with adjustable volts and current limits
> FET/BJT/SCR component tester, great to confirm pinouts when building,
> and confirming go/nogo of suspect devices and LED testing. (never to be
> used on GaAs FETS).
> SIG GEN / Function Gen for audio and RF, again, the best you can afford.
> Old 10w HF rig (to listen and talk to equipment under test)
>
> FLIR camera to identify that component hot spot and excess current
> issue, noting basic ones can be found under $300.
>
> Conductive rubber mat to avoid scratching equipment, noting caution if
> working on gear that has more than 100v floating around.
> hand tools, precision screwdrivers, long socket sets (5.5mm, 6mm, 7mm
> and up), alignment tools, power drill (for 2mm - 32mm drill
> bits/cutters), PCB drill for 0.3mm - 1.4mm drill bits.
> ** Your AC power outlet MUST have RCD / RCBO or earth leakage protection
> fitted, just to protect yourself.
>
> Some ideas, David VK2CZ
>
>

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

_._,_._,_

Sunday, 22 October 2023

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

All suggestions good. I would suggest also an old fashioned large
soldering iron. I had three, all stolen by exterminators. The idea is
that for large items, like can capacitors, you need a soldering iron
with mass. Mass is more important than temperature. A small iron will
not heat large items no matter how hot it gets but it may burn things. A
large iron is more controllable than a heat gun. Heat gun is necessary
for other things.

On 10/22/2023 9:14 PM, David VK2CZ wrote:
> My general purpose bench uses:
>
> Best solder station / vacuum desolder tool you can afford (eg Metcal and
> others). Normal 60/40 solder ( the eco friendly stuff will cause your
> hair to go grey), SMD flux stick, Fibreglass brush to remove solder
> resist, and if your into serious work, conformal coatings, isopropyl
> alcohol and toothbrush / cotton balls.
> Hot air gun to pre-heat connections on large components.
> 30 Gauge insulated wire (to remake broken tracks or wire in mods)
>
> DMM, with continuity beep, multiple test leads with sharp pin ends,
> alligator spring clip ends and SMD tweezer.
> CRO over 100Mhz with 2 or more channels, and ideally with I2C, RS232,
> CAN protocol analysis / trigger abilities..
> PSU with adjustable volts and current limits
> FET/BJT/SCR component tester, great to confirm pinouts when building,
> and confirming go/nogo of suspect devices and LED testing. (never to be
> used on GaAs FETS).
> SIG GEN / Function Gen for audio and RF, again, the best you can afford.
> Old 10w HF rig (to listen and talk to equipment under test)
>
> FLIR camera to identify that component hot spot and excess current
> issue, noting basic ones can be found under $300.
>
> Conductive rubber mat to avoid scratching equipment, noting caution if
> working on gear that has more than 100v floating around.
> hand tools, precision screwdrivers, long socket sets (5.5mm, 6mm, 7mm
> and up), alignment tools, power drill (for 2mm - 32mm drill
> bits/cutters), PCB drill for 0.3mm - 1.4mm drill bits.
> ** Your AC power outlet MUST have RCD / RCBO or earth leakage protection
> fitted, just to protect yourself.
>
> Some ideas, David VK2CZ
>
>

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
SKCC 19998

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#90249): https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/message/90249
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/102090237/693790
Group Owner: Amateur-repairs+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/leave/4530700/693790/458576413/xyzzy [jhjoshan@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

My general purpose bench uses:

Best solder station / vacuum desolder tool you can afford (eg Metcal and others). Normal 60/40 solder ( the eco friendly stuff will cause your hair to go grey), SMD flux stick, Fibreglass brush to remove solder resist, and if your into serious work, conformal coatings, isopropyl alcohol and toothbrush / cotton balls.
Hot air gun to pre-heat connections on large components.
30 Gauge insulated wire (to remake broken tracks or wire in mods)

DMM, with continuity beep, multiple test leads with sharp pin ends, alligator spring clip ends and SMD tweezer.
CRO over 100Mhz with 2 or more channels, and ideally with I2C, RS232, CAN protocol analysis / trigger abilities..
PSU with adjustable volts and current limits
FET/BJT/SCR component tester, great to confirm pinouts when building, and confirming go/nogo of suspect devices and LED testing. (never to be used on GaAs FETS).
SIG GEN / Function Gen for audio and RF, again, the best you can afford.
Old 10w HF rig (to listen and talk to equipment under test)

FLIR camera to identify that component hot spot and excess current issue, noting basic ones can be found under $300.

Conductive rubber mat to avoid scratching equipment, noting caution if working on gear that has more than 100v floating around.
hand tools, precision screwdrivers, long socket sets (5.5mm, 6mm, 7mm and up), alignment tools, power drill (for 2mm - 32mm drill bits/cutters), PCB drill for 0.3mm - 1.4mm drill bits.
** Your AC power outlet MUST have RCD / RCBO or earth leakage protection fitted, just to protect yourself.

Some ideas, David VK2CZ

_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

_._,_._,_

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

Regarding the microscope...IF you have any desire (or think you might in the future) to use a camera with a video camera fitting on it make sure you get a true trinocular scope, ie. you can use both eyepieces at the same time you've engaged your camera. Some of them that are not true trinoncular (read that as less expensive) and you engage the camera you lose the ability to see out of one of the eyepieces, usually the left one.

73 - Dino KLØS

_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

_._,_._,_

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

I do recommend a power supply that has current limit settings. I did buy one of the switching supplies from China and while it works ok the filtering is not very good and it puts out a lot of noise in radio audio circuits.

For hobby and light duty there are several of the solder rework stations with the hot air wand and soldering pencil for less than $ 100.

If not mentioned a good stereo microscope of about 10 power . Amscope makes a good one for about $ 230. The 4000 series. It has a working distance long enough to make repairs easy.

Ralph ku4pt

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 05:57:31 AM EDT, Jim Mcilroy via groups.io <gts53=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi

Equally endorse the tinySA. Use mine regularly when I fix or build stuff. It's partner the nanoVNA is great for filters and antennas but I don't use it as much as the tinySA

Other useful stuff:

Good DMM
elCheapo multimeter with a dial and a needle. If you're looking for a rise or fall in some parameter nothing beats that.

Power supply where you can set a current limit. Plenty of these on the web.
If your budget will run to it get a PSU with buttons and memories. Stops that accidental spinning of the volts knob or putting 12V into a 5V circuit.

Soldering iron and rework station.

Decent function generator - plenty of choice on the web these days.
For receiver tests it's very useful to have an RF signal generator with defined outputs. I bought an Elecraft XG3 years ago. Bit pricy but worth it in those respects.

Decent scope.
My next purchase.
I've been using a Fluke99 ScopeMeter which is good at what it does up to 50MHz. In practice the scope is good up to about 15 MHz. The DMM side is great though so there will always be a place for it.

Power meter and dummy load.

Plenty of spares, components, and junk for improvisation or dealing with unobtainium.

That's my test bench.

Jim. G4EQX

_._,_._,_

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

... and not forgetting the wet finger, for if you're still around
after probing then it wasn't a 110 / 230 V point ::-)

On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 10:57 AM, Jim Mcilroy wrote:
> Equally endorse the tinySA. Use mine regularly when I fix or build stuff. It's
> partner the nanoVNA is great for filters and antennas but I don't use it as
> much as the tinySA
> Good DMM
> elCheapo multimeter with a dial and a needle. If you're looking for a rise or
> fall in some parameter nothing beats that.
> Power supply where you can set a current limit.
> Soldering iron and rework station.
> Decent function generator
> For receiver tests it's very useful to have an RF signal generator with
> defined outputs
> Decent scope.
> Power meter and dummy load.
> Plenty of spares, components, and junk for improvisation or dealing with
> unobtainium.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#90238): https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/message/90238
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/102090237/693790
Group Owner: Amateur-repairs+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/leave/4530700/693790/458576413/xyzzy [jhjoshan@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

_._,_._,_

Saturday, 21 October 2023

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

It is the TinySA and TinySA Ultra. Limited places to buy real ones from but their listed in the TinySA Wiki. The dealers not in the list are most likely selling clones that wont update correctly and fail self test.

https://www.tinysa.org/wiki/

From China, order from Aliexpress Zeenko store. They are one of the authorized sellers and probably the cheapest.

Don K5ZRQ

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 1:40 PM, Donald KX8K
<donhellen@roadrunner.com> wrote:

I was told that there is a tiny spectrum analyzer that works amazingly well from
China. It sells for under $100.

Donald KX8K

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 22:15:57 +0000 (UTC), "Ralph Mowery KU4PT via groups.io"
<ku4pt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

>There are many items from China that are inexpensive and work very well. Like the function generators. Now almost all electronic has gone to surface mount so unless concentrating on older equipment test equipment has changed. Doubt that the resistor/capacitor subistution box is worth getting now.

----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main

_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

_._,_._,_

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

I was told that there is a tiny spectrum analyzer that works amazingly well from
China. It sells for under $100.

Donald KX8K

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 22:15:57 +0000 (UTC), "Ralph Mowery KU4PT via groups.io"
<ku4pt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

>There are many items from China that are inexpensive and work very well. Like the function generators. Now almost all electronic has gone to surface mount so unless concentrating on older equipment test equipment has changed. Doubt that the resistor/capacitor subistution box is worth getting now.

----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#90231): https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/message/90231
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/102090237/693790
Group Owner: Amateur-repairs+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/leave/4530700/693790/458576413/xyzzy [jhjoshan@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Friday, 20 October 2023

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

I can't speak for non-communications work, but when I got back into repairing radios (mostly ham radios for local hams) I would not work without a good signal generator. I happened to come across an IFR 1200 Super S communications monitor that I find indispensable. If or when it dies and can't be repaired I would probably quit doing repairs again.
Often the signal generator or power meter and deviations etc are not necessary, but without the ability to accurately test a completed unit I would not start.
Also the next most important or perhaps the most important is repair data, service manuals etc.
I have gotten to where I really don't want to work on a radio without a good PDF file that is clear and hopefully searchable and can have noted and drawings made in it.
You also need a good adjustable power supply, hopefully one that has adjustable voltage and current so that a short circuit would be less dramatic.
Good lighting and a magnifying lamp along with lighted magnifying head glasses (whatever you call them!).
Next would be an assortment of good soldering stations and irons along with hot air rework station for SMD devices.
A nice big, comfortable work station, large enough to spread out and arrange your test equipment and tools.
That does bring up the necessity for a good scope adequate for the work intended. I have a solid state 200 HMZ dual trace scope that I use quite a bit tracing signals etc. This is one of the first tools I use, right after the digital meter.
My bench has a large flat screen (TV) on the wall right in front of the bench and I use it all of the time for displaying those PDFs with the service manuals.
Of course you need the hand tools to work on the unit and also a good set of trays and bins for the screws and parts.
Also necessary would be good shelves to hold equipment waiting on parts (more and more these days) and spare parts along with any other daty you might need.
Good luck and remember to add even more space and storage than you think you need right now.

JD
KE4MD

_._,_._,_

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

_._,_._,_

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

There are many items from China that are inexpensive and work very well. Like the function generators.

Now almost all electronic has gone to surface mount so unless concentrating on older equipment test equipment has changed. Doubt that the resistor/capacitor subistution box is worth getting now.

Many super service monitors are on the used market now foe under $ 1000.

Ralph ku4pt

On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 05:15:27 PM EDT, Donald KX8K <donhellen@roadrunner.com> wrote:

This article was in my inbox today. It's about setting up a test and repair

bench, focusing on what test equipment we may need.

It is not focused on amateur radio, but it has some good information for those

just starting out in radio repair, for their own repairs or for a sideline to

make some money.

https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/October2015_Reed

I'm sure everyone has their own favorite pieces of test gear that they would add

to what's recommended, but I thought it was a good start.

Donald KX8K

Re: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

Today we have the TinySA (Spectrum Analyzer), the NanoVNA and the TinyPFA

(Phase Frequency Analyzer. At prices unthinkable 20 years ago.

Also you can have a GPSDO, accuracy traceable to the GPS System.

There are now Digital scopes under $200 that rival the old Tektronix monsters.

You can fit a high class test bench in a briefcase these days.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

From: Amateur-repairs@groups.io <Amateur-repairs@groups.io> on behalf of Donald KX8K <donhellen@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 2:15 PM
To: Amateur-repairs@groups.io <Amateur-repairs@groups.io>
Subject: [Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

[Amateur-repairs] SETTING UP A TEST BENCH

This article was in my inbox today. It's about setting up a test and repair
bench, focusing on what test equipment we may need.

It is not focused on amateur radio, but it has some good information for those
just starting out in radio repair, for their own repairs or for a sideline to
make some money.

https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/October2015_Reed

I'm sure everyone has their own favorite pieces of test gear that they would add
to what's recommended, but I thought it was a good start.

Donald KX8K

----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#90212): https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/message/90212
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/102090237/693790
Group Owner: Amateur-repairs+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/Amateur-repairs/leave/4530700/693790/458576413/xyzzy [jhjoshan@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-