Wednesday, 16 November 2016

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST

 

Don't know if this will work in a technical pen... will try it...:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111446456118

But it IS the ink to refill the STAEDTLER LUMOCOLOR permanent 313 markers.
Which to my surprise are labeled as refillable.
Has anyone ever seen a refillable SHARPIE ?







On 11/14/2016 09:23 PM, roylowenthal@yahoo.com [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
 

Has anybody tried using a technical pen & one of the water resistant inks meant for drafting on film?



Roy


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RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] GENERIC MARKER INDIA INK FABRIC PAINT ETCH TEST

 

I've been following this discussion and since the etch seems to affect certain colors,is it possible the dyes are metallic based and the etching soloution just etches these metals away ?

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 3:30 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] GENERIC MARKER INDIA INK FABRIC PAINT ETCH TEST

 

 

So just for giggles........
I tested dollar store permanent markers brand ACADEMIX
and
here's a surprise.....
BLACK ink totally disappeared
BLUE ink faded away
but
RED and GREEN worked great!
Sound familiar?!?!?!
same thing happened with CASEMATE:
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/etch/index.html

AND
since we were talking about drafting inks I looked around here and found
INDIA INK and FABRIC PAINT

The FABRIC PAINT DEFINITELY WORKS WELL. If I had to I would use FABRIC PAINT to protect
a copper board from acid.

The INDIA INK FLAKED AWAY
unreliably leaving missing copper traces.

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/etch/testetch50.html

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[Homebrew_PCBs] ETCH TEST STAEDTLER LUMOCOLOR 313 GREEN and BLACK worked well enough for SMT

 

I think RED would have worked with more coverage.
Not sure about BLUE though.
Definitely worked well with GREEN and BLACK :

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/etch/index.html





On 11/16/2016 11:20 AM, 'Dave Sage' davesage12@rogers.com [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
 

For touch ups I would suggest, with the right ink, the technical pen would be far superior to a sharpie because you can just set the pen tip down and ink will flow. No need to rub it around. I always found sharpies difficult to get a good / durable layer built up. The tech pen ink used to be much more resistant to etch as well. I see the bottle I have is Staedtler #485 23SAR-9. The R may be a P. There's a bit of ink dried on the container. A google search on anything to do with technical pens draws a blank as far as I can see. Staedtler does still have a selection of "sharpie" type markers that may be better than an actual Sharpie.

 I believe they also had a technical pen ink that was used somehow in the ceramics industry. Maybe to autograph mugs or something?

That may be another place to look for a good ink.

 

Sage

 



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[Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST FOR TOUCHUP NOT PLOTTING

 

For touch ups I would suggest, with the right ink, the technical pen would be far superior to a sharpie because you can just set the pen tip down and ink will flow. No need to rub it around. I always found sharpies difficult to get a good / durable layer built up. The tech pen ink used to be much more resistant to etch as well. I see the bottle I have is Staedtler #485 23SAR-9. The R may be a P. There's a bit of ink dried on the container. A google search on anything to do with technical pens draws a blank as far as I can see. Staedtler does still have a selection of "sharpie" type markers that may be better than an actual Sharpie.

 I believe they also had a technical pen ink that was used somehow in the ceramics industry. Maybe to autograph mugs or something?

That may be another place to look for a good ink.

 

Sage

 

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Tuesday, 15 November 2016

[Homebrew_PCBs] Re: GENERIC MARKER INDIA INK FABRIC PAINT ETCH TEST

 

Glass paints work well , but some may require a bit of 'baking' to
thermoset.

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[Homebrew_PCBs] SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST FOR TOUCHUP NOT PLOTTING

 

My goal here with SHARPIES is for touchup...adding anything that didn't TONER transfer properly..... not plotting.

I've gotten pretty consistent results with toner transfer.... but an oddball missing pad or trace once in a while.
So I thought it would be good to figure out once and for all what permanent marker works.

I used drafting pens for years.... for drafting.
I would clean them weekly.... take them apart  and use an ultrasonic ring cleaner.....
which will unclog dried ink.

On 11/15/2016 07:06 AM, 'Dave Sage' davesage12@rogers.com [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
 

Yes. I used them for a couple of years and even installed them in my Roland plotter to plot circuit boards. They did an excellent job (if you were lucky) and if the correct ink is used it is VERY resistant to etch. This was my only method of making boards during that time. But then I got a laser printer and abandoned the plotter and ink method in favor of toner transfer. I would never go back and quite frankly I'm not sure why anyone is considering going back to markers and technical pens when toner transfer works so well.

   The technical pens and plotter were simply a pain in the butt. I was using the smallest ones available (0.3mm I believe) and they had to be taken apart and cleaned after every use. There was an extremely fine wire inside used as an ink release valve and it was sure to get bent when dis-assembled. The pens required special cleaner to dissolve the ink. The pens frequently skipped when used on copper (rather than paper as intended).

 For what it's worth Eagle can still generate plot files for the Roland plotters but the plotters require a parallel port (rare these days) and drivers for same AFAIK do not exist for the plotters any more.

 

 Forget the markers etc. and use toner transfer, it's cheap and easy.

 

 

 


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[Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST

 

Yes. I used them for a couple of years and even installed them in my Roland plotter to plot circuit boards. They did an excellent job (if you were lucky) and if the correct ink is used it is VERY resistant to etch. This was my only method of making boards during that time. But then I got a laser printer and abandoned the plotter and ink method in favor of toner transfer. I would never go back and quite frankly I'm not sure why anyone is considering going back to markers and technical pens when toner transfer works so well.

   The technical pens and plotter were simply a pain in the butt. I was using the smallest ones available (0.3mm I believe) and they had to be taken apart and cleaned after every use. There was an extremely fine wire inside used as an ink release valve and it was sure to get bent when dis-assembled. The pens required special cleaner to dissolve the ink. The pens frequently skipped when used on copper (rather than paper as intended).

 For what it's worth Eagle can still generate plot files for the Roland plotters but the plotters require a parallel port (rare these days) and drivers for same AFAIK do not exist for the plotters any more.

 

 Forget the markers etc. and use toner transfer, it's cheap and easy.

 

 

 

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Posted by: "Dave Sage" <davesage12@rogers.com>
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Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.
Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
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Posted by at No comments:

[Homebrew_PCBs] GENERIC MARKER INDIA INK FABRIC PAINT ETCH TEST

 

So just for giggles........
I tested dollar store permanent markers brand ACADEMIX
and
here's a surprise.....
BLACK ink totally disappeared
BLUE ink faded away
but
RED and GREEN worked great!
Sound familiar?!?!?!
same thing happened with CASEMATE:
http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/etch/index.html

AND
since we were talking about drafting inks I looked around here and found
INDIA INK and FABRIC PAINT

The FABRIC PAINT DEFINITELY WORKS WELL. If I had to I would use FABRIC PAINT to protect
a copper board from acid.

The INDIA INK FLAKED AWAY
unreliably leaving missing copper traces.

http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/etch/testetch50.html

__._,_.___
Posted by: Rob <roomberg@ptd.net>
Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (1)
Have you tried the highest rated email app?
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Monday, 14 November 2016

[Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST

 

Has anybody tried using a technical pen & one of the water resistant inks meant for drafting on film?


 < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_pen >

Roy
 

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Posted by: roylowenthal@yahoo.com
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Sunday, 13 November 2016

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST finer lines

 

I'm using 50 ml muriatic acid mixed with 100 ml hydrogen peroxide......
both are 30% and 70% water. Standard hardware store $4 pool acid and drug store $3 peroxide.
 Nothing exotic about this stuff.

On 11/13/2016 10:00 PM, 'Craig Martin' jennyandcraig01@bigpond.com [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
 



 
The staedtler lumocolor permanent pen 313 permanent (RED)  0.4 line works for me
The black didn't work in ferric chloride
Regards
Craig VK2ZCM
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH TEST finer lines

 

THANK YOU for the suggestion.

I'll have them here in a few days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262038010827



On 11/13/2016 03:48 AM, 'Dave Wade' dave.g4ugm@gmail.com [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
 

I believe that some of the Staedtler waterproof markers were reasonably etch resistant, may not be this exact one..

https://www.staedtler.co.uk/en/products/markers-refill-ink/universal-pens/lumocolor-permanent-pen-313-permanent-universal-pen-s/

some folks sell these as etch resist on E-Bay..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121477899315

but they are available with fine tips.

Dave

These are what folks used to recommend
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: 13 November 2016 00:49
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: SHARPIE PERMANENT MARKER ETCH
> TEST finer lines
>
> On 11/12/2016 9:43 AM, Rob roomberg@ptd.net [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was hoping to find a marker that could leave a finer line.
> > I am getting a real fat line with a sharpie.
> > So I was hoping a new sharpie might leave enough inck for a thinner line.
> > This is too fat for DIP pins:
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/pic/PIC16F628PROTO8d.jpg
> > It works but is tight.
> > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>
> Hello--
>
> At the risk of revealing the era in which I learned technical drawing (*), how
> about using an erasing shield?
>
> http://drawsketch.about.com/od/materials/ss/erasershield.htm
>
> The online auction site lists a bunch of sources for $.99 on up...
>
> 252478256009
>
> (Usual disclaimers apply.) Also, I haven't tried this due to displacement of my
> drafting kit<g>.
>
> In theory, the marker ink shouldn't spread under the shield and smear, but if
> so, applying some tape on the under side to raise the shield off the
> copperclad might work.
>
> 73--
>
> Brad AA1IP
>
> (*) I worked on the crew that invented Fire....<g>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Brad Thompson <brad.thompson@valley.net>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>




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Posted by: Rob <roomberg@ptd.net>
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