Friday, 26 September 2014

[Electronics_101] Re: L.C. Checker Test Components Suggestions Needed

 

Hello

"There are tolerance ratings given in the selection criteria at DigiKey.  When you select 1 of several 'standard' values for C or L, they may as well be as accurate as possible.  Within cost constraints.  OTOH, this device is probably not going to set a new standard for precision measurement so maybe 5% is close enough."

Richard- I thought it would be much as you stated. One of these days I'm going to have start believing in my own answers...my self-doubt is holding me back.

Thanks to everyone who answered this question.

Regards & Many Thanks

Patrick


p.s. NOTE: NO TYPO CHECK WAS DONE HERE; please forgive any that are present.


__._,_.___

Posted by: vw_beetle_fix_it@yahoo.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (12)
Please trim excess when replying

.

__,_._,___

Sunday, 14 September 2014

Re: [Electronics_101] Re: L.C. Checker Test Components Suggestions Needed

 

On Saturday 13 September 2014 11:03:00 pm Paul Alciatore palciatore@gt.rr.com [Electronics_101] wrote:
> The 600 Ohm impedance which was
> standardized in the early days of AM radio with tube circuits,

I have my doubts about that. It came from telephone systems, I think.

What tube circuits have that sort of impedance? I don't recall any.

--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin

__._,_.___

Posted by: "Roy J. Tellason, Sr." <rtellason@gmail.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (11)
Please trim excess when replying

.

__,_._,___

Saturday, 13 September 2014

[Electronics_101] Re: L.C. Checker Test Components Suggestions Needed

 

I offer several facts for you to consider.

1. Most computer cards do not have speaker level/impedance outputs.
They will not have a power amplifier which is needed for speakers.
Perhaps enough for headphones, but then the jack would be marked for
them. I would bet large sums that the card you have has a "line
output". But read below.

2. Not all "line outputs" are created equal. In the professional and
broadcast world, where I happen to come from, line output means an
output that is capable of delivering between 0 and +10 dbm into a 600
Ohm load. 0 dbm (deci Bells, milliWatt) can be easily be calculated
as 0.775 V (V^2 / R = 0.001W). But that is into a 600 Ohm load, not a
high impedance. On the other hand, much consumer equipment, probably
including computer cards, will use the same Voltage level but with a
high source impedance. So, if it is attached to a 600 Ohm load, the
high source impedance will effectively be in series with that 600 Ohm
load resistance and the Voltage level will be divided down to a very
low value, perhaps around 0.05V or less. Hence a high impedance, line
level output can not properly drive a 600 Ohm load. Most consumer
equipment takes this into account and then uses high impedance
inputs, which limit this Voltage loss to perhaps a factor of 50% or
around 0.4V. Not ideal, but usable. The tradeoff is in noise pickup
in the lines between devices. The 600 Ohm impedance which was
standardized in the early days of AM radio with tube circuits, is
barely considered low by today's standards where a transistor output
can have an output impedance of 1 Ohm or less. But it still has a lot
more resistance to noise pickup than a 10,000 Ohm, high impedance circuit.

3. The trick in many modern audio systems is to use a very low
impedance output with high impedance inputs. If the cable lengths are
not too long, perhaps under 100 feet for most audio cables, this
works very well. And since the source impedance is low, the noise
immunity is still good.

4. Your card that is marked Left, Right, and Center Speakers is
probably some form of "line outputs" that are simply labeled for
those speakers, respectively. In all probability, they do not have a
speaker style signal and if you fed them to speakers you would have a
very low sound because the low impedance of the speakers would drop
the level way down.

5. Many, dare I say ALL, computer "speakers" are really are a
combination of a speaker and an audio power amplifier in the same
package. They are DESIGNEDfor "line level" inputs to match the "line
level" outputs of computer cards.

So, you probably have almost exactly what you need.

One more thought. In a professional environment I often used a low
impedance audio output to feed high impedance inputs. This has never
produced any problems and is almost the preferred way of doing it in
many circumstances. Audio signals do not normally have lines that are
long enough to produce the standing wave and reflection problems that
higher, radio frequency signals do so having the "proper" terminating
resistance at the receiving end of the line really is not necessary.

__._,_.___

Posted by: Paul Alciatore <PAlciatore@gt.rr.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (10)
Please trim excess when replying

.

__,_._,___

[Electronics_101] Re: L.C. Checker Test Components Suggestions Needed

 

I can't say that I know a whole lot about capacitors but the only time I have used tantalum is for power supply filtering.  Personally, I doubt that I would consider them for something like a tuned circuit.  A very quick glance at DigiKey shows that tantalum capacitors come with a 5%, 10% or 20% tolerance.


OTOH, I do tend to use film capacitors and they are available in tolerances as low as 1%.  For very low capacitance values, mica capacitors have much lower tolerances.  They just don't have much range.  Same for thin film capacitors...

Go to DigiKey and look through the various types of capacitors 
Electronic Components and Parts Search | DigiKey

 



For timing circuits, I tend to use 1% film capacitors and 1% thin film resistors.  As the results of analog computing circuits are usually displayed on an oscilloscope of one kind or another, accuracy in excess of 1% just isn't warranted.  At some point the cost becomes prohibitive.

Richard


__._,_.___

Posted by: rstofer@pacbell.net
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (9)
Please trim excess when replying

.

__,_._,___

Friday, 12 September 2014

[Electronics_101] Re: L.C. Checker Test Components Suggestions Needed

 

There are tolerance ratings given in the selection criteria at DigiKey.  When you select 1 of several 'standard' values for C or L, they may as well be as accurate as possible.  Within cost constraints.  OTOH, this device is probably not going to set a new standard for precision measurement so maybe 5% is close enough.


It's not easy to find 1% capacitors and, in the old days, analog computers used capacitors with much tighter tolerances.  In fact, they had them temperature stabilized in ovens.  They were serious about accurate integration.  The computers could be as accurate as 1 part in 10^4 or 0.01%.  Not all of them, just the real high priced units.

I guess if you had to model the liftoff of an Atlas missile, you needed a fairly accurate computer.

Richard

__._,_.___

Posted by: rstofer@pacbell.net
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (8)
Please trim excess when replying

.

__,_._,___

Thursday, 11 September 2014

[Electronics_101] Re: L.C. Checker Test Components Suggestions Needed

 

I am personally interested to know (or test), for the crucial parts in a circuit like a resonant LC, the characteristic sensitivities of a component with temperature.


I didn't have the chance to have tantalum capacitors but I think their temperature coefficients of their value and ESR/leakage are relatively low at a certain frequency.


Though there are other things to be considered, I liked to say that the value tolerance may be important in large production only since calibrating costs time and money which may not be the case in most personal applications.


Kerim


__._,_.___

Posted by: ahumanbeing2000@yahoo.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)
Please trim excess when replying

.

__,_._,___

Wednesday, 10 September 2014

[Electronics_101] Re: L.C. Checker Test Components Suggestions Needed

 

Hello Richard


Thanks for the info.

Do you think the tantalum capacitors are really worth bothering with- i.e. are they really that close to their marked value? Are they better, tolerance wise?

Many Thanks


Patrick


p.s. NOTE: NO TYPO CHECK WAS DONE HERE; please forgive any that are present.

__._,_.___

Posted by: vw_beetle_fix_it@yahoo.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (6)
Please trim excess when replying

.

__,_._,___